The Dive Podcast
Welcome to The Dive Podcast
Hey, I’m Taylor Scanlan—a Musical Theatre performer with over 10 years of experience, and the creator of The Aligned Performer, a community-led business dedicated to helping emerging artists like you step into the industry with confidence and clarity.
This podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the performing arts world.
Whether you’re preparing for auditions, managing self-doubt, or figuring out how to sustain a long-term career, The Dive Podcast is here to guide you.
Here’s what you can expect:
🎭 Live Q&A Episodes: Every other week, I’ll answer your questions directly, sharing insights and strategies to help you move forward.
🎤 Industry Expert Interviews: On alternate weeks, I sit down with seasoned professionals who share their journeys, actionable advice, and what they’ve learned about thriving in this industry.
If you’re ready to build confidence, master your mindset, and create a sustainable, fulfilling career in the arts, you’re in the right place.
Let’s dive in together! 🎭✨
The Dive Podcast
39: From Rejection to Resilience with Charlotte Page
Struggling with audition nerves, rejection, or finding your place in the industry?
In this episode, we dive into Charlotte Page’s journey from aspiring performer to a swing in Sunset Boulevard.
Learn how she overcame self-doubt, built resilience through rejection, and balanced the demands of musical theatre with self-care.
Whether you're navigating your first auditions or dreaming of booking your first show, this episode is packed with relatable stories, mindset hacks, and actionable advice to help you thrive in your musical theatre career.
🚀 Join the Performer's Mindset Hub for FREE:
Free community with tools to support your journey.
Click here to join now!
💻 Check out Momentum 2.0 Program:
Watch FREE From Graduate to Pro Masterclass & learn the 3 Steps To Becoming a Sustainable Musical Theatre Professional.
Here we are. Hi Shasha, Hi Shasha. Charlotte Page on the podcast Number one fan now becomes on the podcast.
Speaker 2:Guys, I'm off. How are you? I'm good. How are you, I'm so good.
Speaker 1:It's so good to have you on, and especially someone that's just not only graduated but you've been on in a full major musical. We've just been doing Sunset Boulevard together.
Speaker 2:Both swings, your onstage swing. What's that been like? It has been amazing. It has been such a great introduction to the industry. When I got that phone call and my agent said you've booked Sunset Boulevard and then she followed it up with and you've booked a swing, oh my gosh, their feelings were terrifying to be, honest, I was terrified.
Speaker 2:I thought I don't think you ever think that you can do it. And then you're put in a situation where you book that gig and you're like oh my gosh, how do they know that I can do this?
Speaker 1:Where were you when you got the call?
Speaker 2:I was at home and I'd just been for coffee with a couple of members of my cohort and they'd said have you found out about Sunset yet? And I was just like oh no, I'm not sure what's going on. I I'm not sure what's going on. I got home, I sat down at my desk, I was working and, yeah, I got a call and I didn't have anyone at home.
Speaker 1:So I was like what do I do? And I just yeah so many emotions.
Speaker 2:It was the best call I've ever received.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it's amazing, and we just did it in Melbourne and Sydney Working at the Opera House. How awesome was that.
Speaker 2:It was.
Speaker 1:I know walking every day, just like I know it doesn't feel real sometimes, did it?
Speaker 2:Billy Boucher would always say you've peaked too early. Like you've first been working at the Opera House, I was like, oh, I know it set a really high bar, but yeah, oh my gosh. It was just, yeah, really surreal, especially, I don't know about you, but when we walked it was really emotional. There were a lot of tears.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'd never actually even been in the Opera House, let alone perform there, not even as a tourist. I just walked around it and thought that's nice. Yeah that's nice.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:So then let's track back a little bit, because you trained at the Con and you're very passionate about your time there. How long were you there?
Speaker 2:I was there for three years, but they've actually had a name change now. So, they are the Queensland Academy of Excellence in Musical Theatre, qaemt, so I know we like to say clamped but I am a con kid because it was the con up until I left You're right, so what year did you start there? I started in 2021 and then graduated last year in 2020.
Speaker 1:Wow, was that after COVID yes.
Speaker 2:Oh wow, yeah, I was living in Tassie at the time, so I was really fortunate to not be in the thick of COVID.
Speaker 1:And you grew up in Tassie, didn't you? I did, yeah, I'm a Launceston girl, proud Tassie girl, oh my gosh. So what was the dance school, the school that you went to there?
Speaker 2:I started at Launceston Dance Centre with Miss Marianne.
Speaker 1:Oh, very good. How old were you when you were starting?
Speaker 2:I think I was three. Yeah, I started ballet and then mom always said she was like when I was in high school I struggled to stand up in front of. She was a prefect and she was like I always struggled to stand up and speak, and so big thing when she said, when I had you girls, I've got a big sister, she was like I didn't want you to have those same confidence issues. So she enrolled us in ballet and then yeah.
Speaker 1:Three years old. Yeah, oh my gosh, I started my dance training at 14. Like it's just crazy, I know, I know.
Speaker 2:No, it's all I've. Yeah, it's been most of my life being on stage, so yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh. And so obviously you did the thing in Tassie. What was the kind of moment where you started to feel like maybe I need outsource and go to that next step.
Speaker 2:I had a really interesting path after school so I'd always danced when I was 11. I got into Latin and ballroom dancing, which I feel like is a big part of my journey, so worth noting that was something that I did for about eight years and competed and I loved that and I think that was my first introduction to acting in a way because there's a lot of storytelling in Latin and ballroom dancing.
Speaker 1:I loved hearing this about you. I didn't even find this out until later in the seven months of meeting each other.
Speaker 2:I know, I think we only talked about it in the last week.
Speaker 1:Wait, so you competed. Yes, yes, oh my gosh, that must be a whole different world.
Speaker 2:It's a very different world. Yeah, so I started ballroom when I was 11.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And the guy, andrew Palmer, who came to Tassie and opened up the studio. I had a friend who'd started and she was like you should come along and have a go, because I'd always been dancing and that was where I found. I guess my thing Like that was when I, within a year, I was like I'm much better at this than I am at ballet, and I never had ballet feet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I started competing when I was about 11 or 12 and then, yeah, it's a very it's a very different world to musical theatre, the slick back hair and the fake tan and the glitzy costumes and.
Speaker 2:but I loved it. I loved it and that was where I really felt like I found my niche and my passion. And, yeah, it took us overseas a couple of times. We went to Russia and we went to Latvia, did you? Yeah, which was awesome when I was 15 and then 17, and then had a bit of a break when I finished high school. My dance partner, henry, went off traveling and then he came back and we went for coffee and he was like I want to do the Aussies. So we did six months of hardcore training and went back and did our last competition together when I was 19.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so what was the shift between that and then going into musical theatre?
Speaker 2:Actually the first amateur theatre show I did in Tassie was Strictly Ballroom, so that was funny because I was like worlds collide. And I think theatre for me started in high school when I was competing in Latin and then I started singing at school when I was cast in like our school musical. It's a weird combination because I think it took me a while to grow well. It took me a long time to actually grow my confidence in my other abilities. In singing I'd only ever known dancing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, strictly Born was a funny one because, I was like this is both of the things that I've done for a long time.
Speaker 1:That was obviously the perfect thing. Yeah, yeah, it's crazy how things happen.
Speaker 2:I know, I know yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh. So that was good, so good. So then you did three years at the, what it's called now QAEMT, but it was the con when I was there. The con when you were there.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so when were auditions for Sunset? Was that the first audition you'd ever done?
Speaker 2:Was there other experiences I'd had? We, once we get to third year at the con, we're allowed to audition for.
Speaker 1:Right. So for the first two years you're not allowed to audition.
Speaker 2:No, paul, who runs the course there, and it's really true. You've come here to learn and you're still cooking as you would say in first and second year, but in third year, opens up that opportunity for you to start becoming an auditioner.
Speaker 1:Seeing for things and getting in the room.
Speaker 2:Getting in the room. So my first audition was Grease and my second audition was what else did I go to? I think I auditioned for something else in person. I actually can't remember what it was, but I think I had two auditions. Oh, Chicago.
Speaker 1:And that was on my birthday.
Speaker 2:Oh, really yes, and so it was such a full circle moment because I auditioned for Chicago on my 26th birthday, got cut and on my 27th birthday I celebrated it in sunset wow, and I was like this is so weird how much could happen in a?
Speaker 1:year.
Speaker 2:Oh my god but yeah, not much could shake me that day. I was like it's my birthday, I'm gonna go have a nice day um, so I did Greece, chicago, and then it was that period of time when I graduated where there were heaps of auditions. I think Grand Hog Day was auditioning, sunset was auditioning. Yeah, I feel there was about five auditions it all rains and it pours.
Speaker 1:When it rains, it pours. I feel, with auditions, yeah, it's either nothing and then one month where there's five.
Speaker 2:Literally it was crazy, but at the time we were all like what a privilege We've just graduated and now we're getting seen for all of these musicals and I think most of them were. It was really good. It was good and I think the fact that there were a few auditions as well took the pressure off because it felt like, okay, there's all these different shows coming.
Speaker 2:I might not be right for any of them, I might be right for one of them, I don't really know but it meant that I didn't put all my eggs in one basket. This is the only show auditioning right now Just the pressures increased a little bit sometimes basket.
Speaker 1:This is the only show auditioning right now. Just the pressures increased a little bit sometimes. So you did three of the auditions at that time and what was the first audition experience like that you'd ever done Was that Greece?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so what was that like?
Speaker 1:Sharing the truth, because you trained for so long to then finally go and do the thing and you're there. What is it like?
Speaker 2:It was actually so funny because Greece came up and I think I looked at that. I was obviously aware I was still studying as well, so I didn't have that bachelor's degree yet, so I didn't want to put too much pressure on it. But you are so nervous that first audition and I think the nerves for me were increased because I was studying it was like this is what it is and, as they say, you're a professional auditioner, you're not a professional performer.
Speaker 1:That's what we do. You've got to get the job, yes.
Speaker 2:So then I didn't really have the ability to walk in. Even after two years of training, I still walked in, terrified. I was so nervous and I think I'd learnt three different characters' material. I think it was like Marty. I might have learnt Sandy. We'd done Grace at uni, so I was familiar with it which was good do you find that helped a little bit?
Speaker 2:it did a little bit at least you knew the material of what the angle kind of was going yeah, I knew the material, but I walked in and as much as I tried to pretend like I was so confident, I just was so, so scared. I was so scared and I didn't audition well, because I actually didn't back myself that day I really walked out and I think I felt the pressure too. I was living in Brisbane, I'd flown to Melbourne for the audition, so it was that introduction to okay. This is also like the expensive part of auditioning.
Speaker 2:If I'm going to be Brisbane based and I'm going to be doing this all the time to walk in, sing a song and be like, if I'm going to be Brisbane based and I'm going to be doing this all the time. To walk in, sing a song and be like thanks, that's all we need to see. I was like, oh, this is the industry Like?
Speaker 1:welcome to the industry.
Speaker 2:So it was actually a really good introduction. Yeah, yeah, because it made me go. All right, I don't want to A I don't want to feel this terrified when I walk in. That was a big thing that I took away from it. But B I was like this is what it is and I was a bit of like there was acceptance in that moment of that rejection being like all right on to the next, I know.
Speaker 1:So then you ended up. Was it Chicago? The second one.
Speaker 2:Chicago was the second one, yeah.
Speaker 1:And how did you feel going into that? Obviously, you're probably so different.
Speaker 2:So different.
Speaker 1:So different? Yeah, what do you feel like changed since the Grease audition?
Speaker 2:I think I walked out and went. I don't want to walk in feeling the way I walked into Grease. I already walked in feeling really just high anxiety, and I don't think I set myself up well for that audition. I think on the day, I sat around and I practiced the songs a million times, even though I'd already done that. I knew what I was doing, yeah, and I you psyched yourself out, absolutely psyched myself out. The difference between Greece and Chicago, though, was that dance was first in Chicago, and I think, naturally, I feel more comfortable and in my element walking into a dance audition first.
Speaker 2:Yes, so yeah, the difference was that just in itself, I thought, okay, I'm doing the thing that I feel the most confident in yes, so that was good, and it was also my birthday, like I know, right so you're like, even if I get cut, it's my birthday. It's my birthday every audition I walk into because I've walked in thinking okay, I need something else that's going to, even if I get rejected today.
Speaker 1:That's it. What do they say?
Speaker 2:Rejection is redirection.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my mindset was I was just in a healthier, happier place. I think, when I walked in for Chicago.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when you were talking about, you didn't back yourself in the first time and then you were able to the second time. Was there anything else specific that you did that allowed you? It can be something simple that allowed you to feel like you were backing yourself, going in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I listened to the five minute it is by. I've got to remember what it's called the Arts Wellbeing Collective do a pre-perform. It's called a performance. Energy like meditation.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And we were introduced to this at uni. I can't remember if it was just like on a worksheet we got given after a workshop or something, but it was like this is a really good resource. You should listen to this fantastic. I have a five minutes called extend breath. It's just like a deep breathing meditation. And then this is called performance energy and I'd started listening to it when we were doing shows, when I was in first year and we were doing Grease, and then it became something that I would listen to and before Grease audition I did not listen to it.
Speaker 2:And I don't know how. I think it's easy to see that this could have actually had a big impact. But, if you haven't listened to it. Yeah, I'll link it into this episode for sure. Amazing, and it's very fitting because I'm creating things right now. I know, and that's. We've obviously been able to talk about this stuff so much throughout sunset. But I've never been a big person on in meditation, but I find it incredibly relaxing.
Speaker 2:It actually makes me cry yes it makes me cry because I think the way it's structured it always reminds me that I do this because I love it and I think that is really powerful before walking into an audition having that mindset, even if I get a no today. I do this because I love it and it's just a really nice reminder and I listen to it before my sunset audition.
Speaker 1:There you go. So, who knows, there we go. Well, definitely, I'll definitely check it out. I didn't even know they had that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there we go. Oh definitely, I'll definitely check it out.
Speaker 1:I didn't even know they had that, so that's fantastic. Yeah, it's really good. I really love all the work that they do as well. Yeah, and that's it. I think a lot of us gosh giving me a mindset hack at 18, I would have told you to piss off.
Speaker 2:I used to be like this too. I was like meditation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't have time. Who's like such a high, like I've been such an anxious kid? I was like, imagine, I know, oh my gosh, I was just yeah anyway. But now, having done now I teach yoga and I've done all of that and really understood the benefits of it is it's, yeah, fundamentally how I live now with learning about it and teaching people.
Speaker 1:So if people are hearing about, oh, meditate or stuff, things like the arts, well-being, arts, well-being collective and even the stuff that I've started to post, I've always found, even when I was just a slight, tangent that would go on. Now I remember trying Pilates like reform of Pilates for the first time but I never did it beforehand and then my introduction to it was from a dancer or an artist that was actually teaching it, and sometimes that's a really cool way to start going into things that maybe you're not comfortable with, like meditation or yoga actually being taught by a performer, because then we're able to actually make it morph to your exact needs, and I'm sure that meditation had it was based on that. You're about to go into an audition and to give your values and to all of that as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just really relatable and, yeah, just incredibly calming. And I think that is so important to walk in clear-minded because, you don't know what's going to be thrown at you but, walking in and worrying about that beforehand isn't going to serve you.
Speaker 1:And when we're going into auditions it's all in the we're in our heads massively. We don't even sometimes believe we're in a body, we're just like but what if this, what if that?
Speaker 2:So, just taking a moment and you walk out and you go. What just happened? What just happened, yeah.
Speaker 1:So then you did the Chicago. You felt a little bit more self-worth and a bit more stable from doing this meditation, which was amazing. And then Sunset happened. So what was there any differences? What did you learn from the Chicago audition that allowed you to step into Sunset in a different way?
Speaker 2:I think just a little bit of like rejection actually really helped me with resilience. So, getting the nose was good because it made me go. I'm determined to get a yes. Not necessarily in a way that I would walk in and act any different than I usually would, but I definitely think for me there was just a bigger confidence in myself.
Speaker 2:And there was also another element that might've helped in the way that when I went into my audition so I was actually auditioning for Sunset in Melbourne that was my original Sunset, I think it must have been. Melbourne was auditioning after Sydney and I couldn't make my time due to a family we had.
Speaker 2:I think I might have had a funeral or something but, I couldn't make it and I contacted my agent Sorry, not my agent because I wasn't with them yet but I contacted Uni, our admin lady dummy there, who was organising all of that for us. Then she said absolutely just ask if you can change it.
Speaker 2:So I ended up going in Sydney, which also meant that I walked into the audition. I was very like by myself. I wasn't there with any of my cohort members, I wasn't there with any, I didn't know anyone, and so I really felt like I could just unapologetically walk Do you know what I mean? Like I didn't have anything holding me back or I wasn't worried about making sure that I wasn't worried about what everyone else was doing.
Speaker 1:I felt like I turned up. I was like hey, like Katie, who booked it as well.
Speaker 2:We met each other in the bathroom. Wow, we ended up going for like a beer at the pub after.
Speaker 1:I called back and became really good friends.
Speaker 2:I love this story yeah and we were like oh, she goes. Imagine if we booked this and she quickly went oh no, I don't want to think about that. No, we can't think about that. And then we did so. That was really funny, but I like walked in fresh, I was like I'm going to just be myself, say hi to everyone, and it was such a lovely.
Speaker 1:Everyone knew each other, but instead of sitting back and being like everyone knows each, other.
Speaker 2:I was like I'm going to talk to people and meet people and start to which. Then I felt like I walked in feeling more confident because I just had conversations with people in the room and people are nice, don't? Think that you're going to walk into an audition and everyone's sitting there like this which I think is a bit of a stigma. Everyone's so focused and you talk to anyone. It's just not like that. That's what's been so nice about working and doing Sunset it's, oh, everyone is so nice. Everyone has your back.
Speaker 1:It's not as scary as I think it can sometimes be played out and we talk about this a lot, especially with a lot of performers you get taught so strictly about what the industry is and then you have the experience, which I feel is consistently changing.
Speaker 1:When I was starting out, it was a whole different world to where it is now. What was it like then, stepping from now? You've you did the training, you've done the auditions, you got in and now you're starting. That's a long time to get there, from your ballroom kind of days and being in Tassie doing auditions, and now you're about to start rehearsals for Sunset. What was that like? Because did you have to move.
Speaker 2:Yes, I'm Brisbane based, so then, like I moved there for the con and Brucey's been home, since yeah, so you had to move down to Melbourne to start rehearsals? Yeah, but I lived in Melbourne back in 2017 to 2019 because this is my second degree, so I did a. Bachelor of Communications and worked in marketing and then ended up back in Tassie and then I've moved around a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So coming back to Melbourne definitely felt like a little piece of home, which was nice, but I had, from the time I found out, which must have been late November, to when we started, which was the first or second of April.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was quite a big gap. Yeah, it was about four months before, like from finding out to when we started, which was really lovely because I felt like I had a lot of time to work out and set up how I thought I would swing and you always think you're going to swing a certain.
Speaker 2:This is how you think you're going to do it, and then you get there and you're like oh my gosh. But I remember doing a lot of like mindset stuff and making sure I was like staying active and getting out and doing all the things that I like to do in that time, because I knew that once we started it was going to be pretty busy.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:But just preparing myself mentally really for what could come.
Speaker 1:I wasn't really sure what to expect, and that's it, because you're wanting to prepare for something that you don't even know what's actually. I didn't know how to do it.
Speaker 2:And you guys have said it too. Like when we started yourself and you embarrassed the DCs. No one knows how to swing. Really there's a little element of it studying at the con. In our third year show we double cast, so you do have two tracks. That was the only time I'd been introduced into that, but for me I was terrified of swinging harmonies oh yes in true me fashion. I found I just never told you this.
Speaker 1:I found an old 19 something score of sunset and I learned all of the harmonies before I got through it were the same. Yes, oh good, and I wasn't sure if they would be, but I know myself and I knew that, swimming if you would be.
Speaker 2:But I know myself and I knew that. If you think that you could never swing harmonies, trust me you can, because I went into. I knew no music theory when I started at the con I'd never done anything like this oh same. But I feel like I'm more like I learned by listening, like my ear.
Speaker 2:So I felt, okay, I've got the ear for, I think, singing the harmonies, but how am I actually going to hack this? And I thought I'm just going to start now. And I thought, even if they're the same, or even if they're not, at least I've got a little bit of a head start. So that was actually what I did and I feel like a lot of.
Speaker 1:I was need to make that really clear. Maybe don't go look at it. I am very. That was definitely me being a little bit anxious about it and wanting to get ahead. You do what suits you.
Speaker 2:For me it worked out well, but it could have been a completely different score, and I actually could have set myself up for failure.
Speaker 1:So it actually probably wouldn't be my first piece of advice, but definitely, yeah, finding what works for you.
Speaker 2:You don't know how to swing before you get there. You just have to learn it. But whatever they've seen in the audition room, I had to keep reminding myself. It was enough for them to know that I could do it, and that should have given me though I doubt it at times enough confidence in myself to go. And then you just work it out as you go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so let's talk about swinging, let's talk about that, and you've been. I think it was even near the end of Sydney, you had quite a good go at doing different roles and stuff like that. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because you were on stage swing for Sunset and for anyone that maybe doesn't know what that is, what is an on-stage swing?
Speaker 2:So essentially you have your own plot every night, so it's in the show, and then you. I guess in worst case scenario you can be removed in a sense.
Speaker 2:So I think there was probably maybe one or two shows they had to cut my role out which left Port Campbell on his own, because he's the other on stage singing and we do most of our scenes together. So a bit of interpretation there, and I had to do that once too, and I said to you and Bez. What do I do when I walk on? He's not going to be there and Bez was like just make it up Like you're creative.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's it. Find a new intention. I was like, okay, great.
Speaker 2:So yeah, and then I would swing into other tracks if they needed me and then they might put a few times, like they'd put an offstage swing into my track. Regan would do my track. I think I got about seven swings in the last two weeks at Sunset or three weeks at Sunset Gosh. It was great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you loved it. I love it.
Speaker 2:You were great I love it, it's so fun. I love the feeling. I love those nerves. I think you have to like I love it. I know right, I miss it because you become, you don't really get. I tend to not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you just get comfortable, you know what to expect. So it becomes a little bit less chill what's going to happen. And then, all of a sudden, oh, by the way, you're on for this character tonight. Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, I guess I'm a bit biased because I've been swinging for a little while, yeah, and doing it. But yeah, you definitely get to if I could go back. I just get bored.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's so I think you can't get complacent. It keeps you really in the show and there's something that's really cool about going. I know all these tracks. Like I could do all of these tracks and that's really.
Speaker 1:that's great for confidence, because it's just yeah, it reminds you that you're capable of more than you always think you are A hidden thing that I really loved about swinging is that it really gives you the bigger picture idea of a scene, of the show in its entirety, Whereas when I've just been on for an ensemble track you just live in your own little world. You don't even notice scenes or things that are happening. But being a swing is a really cool thing in the fact that you get to. You really need to understand the bigger picture and I find the more that I go on for different people I'm more aware of like the scene as a whole and I get to actually enjoy it even more. Yeah, Don't you agree?
Speaker 2:And things that you actually didn't notice. Yes, Small things but we were really lucky to have such a like, such a beautiful supportive cast and I never felt like I couldn't say to Maddie or say to Mary, hey, in this moment, here, do you hand that bottle to that person? Yes, and everyone was always so willing to be like, yep, you do this.
Speaker 1:But sometimes you'd say, hey, do you just double checking because you'd have something in your notes and they'd be like oh, that doesn't happen anymore, or that's changed, I know, and you go oh, oh right, I do that on stage, I love it. I got to come on stage a fair few times with you as Campbell. We had fun, we did and something that I didn't realise until I actually went on with you something that I do. I guess it's like a coping mechanism that I just find works for me. When I go on, if I'm a bit nervous, like the key thing that I fundamentally do is bring fun to it. So before I go on.
Speaker 1:I go like this we're going to do this, this, this, and that's all going to be good. Let's go, just bring the fun elements. That's always helped me go on, because it allowed I always remind myself that it's really not that serious. What we're doing is really not that serious and we're actually meant to have fun. And if I'm having fun and I'm enjoying what I'm doing on stage, it allows me to do a much better job as opposed to but is it the right hand, left hand?
Speaker 1:What about this? It doesn't serve you. No, it doesn't serve.
Speaker 2:And it's the other thing to remind yourself when you walk off and you've made a minor mistake which you're going to do as a swing. I think that's a really important thing to know. You cannot ruminate on those mistakes. They're going be able to walk away and go. The audience don't know.
Speaker 2:The majority of the people sitting in the audience have never seen the show. They don't know that you accidentally used your left hand instead of your right. I know that the dance captains and the rest do, but you can give those notes and you go. Oh sorry, I forgot about that. No, all good, just want it to just note it down and then you move on because, yeah, there's no, it just doesn't serve you to sit around. And I think two things I've learnt are trust and perspective. Trust yourself, trust the people that are around you, and the perspective thing it's not that serious. I always say and I said this to Regan once, I think Regan's offstage swing and we've worked very much together which has been awesome, very much lent on each other throughout this period, which has been great.
Speaker 2:And I said to her one day it's a bit morbid. But I said one day it's a bit morbid. But I said one day, like when I die no one's going to stand up and say Charlotte was a really great swing. Charlotte always knew which hand went up in the scene. That we did I love that and I just it helps me go. We are not like, we're not super humans, we cannot get everything right and it's our job to keep the show running.
Speaker 2:And yeah, of course, there's moments that are more crucial than others in terms of like safety you don't want to run into someone, or? Cause any traffic issues or forget important props, those things. But as long as you put your best foot forward, do your best and remember that you cannot be perfect every time you walk out on that stage which is when the fun is the fun and you walk off as you have before I go on.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely yes, and it's a running thing that I find with every swing I've been able to work with some really talented swings, including you and going. It's a really funny thing that I still do to this day. You will go on for the first show. You'll get so many things and maybe there's like a few things that are like that could be better, and then the next opportunity you get to go on, you'll do really well in the things that you stuffed up in and then all of a sudden, now one thing that you got really well done is all stuffed up and it's just like this jumble. So if you're not humorous about it and you can't move forward with the sense of humility, so long as no one's being hurt and everyone's known yeah yeah, and of course you're on top of your work to a certain extent, Absolutely there's definitely.
Speaker 2:It's a balance, but I think we found a really nice balance in Sunset and I think. All credit to you, and Bez as well, just creating such a lovely environment for us to feel like we could make mistakes, and it wasn't the end of the world.
Speaker 1:That's it. Both Amy and I have worked with many different types of people and in those roles as well, that have been quite strict and come down, and we've just found that we just come from a place of. We've been there, we are swings, we've had that experience and we know how nerve wracking it can be. So I find that only kindness and support and actually seeing people as a human first is going to actually help them more than why are you not doing this?
Speaker 2:I'm so glad that you guys are like that.
Speaker 1:We were talking about this yesterday, about when I'm ever in a position, that is, of being a dance captain or providing notes in any capacity, I'm always coming from that place of they're actually professional artists that are being paid to be here. They're not my children that I need to keep a hold of. You know what I mean. So, like they, I always think if someone gets something wrong, I inherently know, or come from a frame of mind that no one actually ever wants to do it wrong. Everyone wants to do their best.
Speaker 1:And they probably already know that they haven't, oh all the time the amount of times I don't have to even know, because someone will come up to me and be like did you see that? I just have to say, and a lot of the times I might not be watching, and I'll be like oh yeah, I don't know, shah, I'm going to have to come in at 10am to go over that and I'll just say it. But sometimes just sitting back and you and be like, oh my God.
Speaker 2:Oh, you walk off with that. Look like yep, yeah, you know that I did that before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but again it comes down to that having fun with it, basically. So why don't we finish off with some things to think about? If there's students that listen into the dive and they're looking to become a pro, they're wanting to use their skills, the things that they've trained for so long to make a career out of it skills, things that they've trained for so long to make a career out of it. And I would love to know any either advice that you would give maybe younger Charlotte that, coming from the world of studying, to thinking, okay, I need to do all these things to move forward to now having experience of doing auditions, getting into a show, living the lifestyle that you dreamed of. What would be some word of advice to people that are just in that cusp they're auditioning now, maybe getting rejected, they're going through the motions.
Speaker 2:I would say find other things that fill your cup. I have a lot of interests and hobbies and when I started at the con I remember walking away from my first couple of days feeling am I an imposter? Because I was hearing people all the time like name drop and talk about so many different musicals that I'd never heard of. And I thought do I like know, do I know enough about this industry, or am I you know? Yeah, I just felt like a little bit out of place.
Speaker 2:I knew how much I loved it and I was obviously there. I'd proven myself. I got my foot in the door and I was at the con, so I didn't need to then prove that side of it. But for me, I stay sane by having other things in my life that make me happy. I'm really close with my family. I've always loved sport and I found that during the times where because your job is your hobby, is your passion, it's everything. We do this because we love it so much. But I feel like the times when I've been able to turn up to uni or turn up to work sunset or turn up to an audition as my best self is when I am filling my cup with the other things that make me happy. Yes, you have to keep learning and you have to keep going to the dance classes and having your singing lessons and upskilling and always being keen and eager to learn, but you don't have to be this person who lives and breathes musical theatre and it's absolutely everything about you.
Speaker 1:It's actually not sustainable.
Speaker 2:No, and I wish I knew that in my first sort of year of uni, I thought it had to be my everything. And then you decide of who you are and what makes you who you are, and it was a big thing for me. Just like be myself. Like be yourself. Don't turn up and pretend, because you know you're going to turn up and pretend to be someone else. Well, you've got to sustain that for seven months on a contract I know right.
Speaker 2:So I was like I'm not going to be that, I just want to. Yeah, I want more younger performers to know that there can, you can have other things that make you happy. You can be a yoga instructor, you can do the Melbourne half marathon.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of people who like run.
Speaker 2:Now there's a lot of performers who I follow. Now they wouldn't know who I am, but I see what they do and they have these other hobbies and I love that. I actually find that really inspiring, because when these times have come and it's only been two weeks since Sunset's finished but we've essentially got about a three month break I didn't want to get to that point or the point when I'm out of work which is going to come.
Speaker 2:Inevitably. There's going to be times when I'm in between contracts where I feel like I have nothing else. So I try my best and I would start it now, if you're even an aspiring performer, because when you get to uni it's basically a nine to five unpaid job.
Speaker 1:It's a full-time job, and I guess maybe that's what we get taught. So then that's what we expect, absolutely. When you finish, or even you get into eight show weeks. You've just gone from this nine to whatever everyday class. So then, when you're now left to your own devices, and even if you just did one class or a day or something, it doesn't feel enough.
Speaker 1:But just knowing that it is more than enough. It's just the years that you train I always say is like the intensive, kind of like pressure cooker moment to get you ready, to get you cooked, to get you ready. But then when you actually go into real life you're 18 or whatever. At that time it's a good time to do all those things. But when we're talking about sustainability and the longevity, when we do eight show weeks, we're not there eight, 12 hours a day?
Speaker 2:No, on a Friday we rock up at 6.30 at our one-hour call time.
Speaker 1:And finish by like 10.15 or something like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and like for me and I think you were similar I like to get outdoors, Go for a coffee with a mate. I also work in marketing and that other side as well, so what's maybe there that I could start to? Do or look at other work for when we have these breaks.
Speaker 1:And I guess as well when you are studying, because it is your whole life. When you now get all this opportunity to, in quotes, discover who you are or do that, I think a really cool stepping stone and what I love teaching students is to find what you actually love to do. Like for me, I really loved performing, but I also loved educating and teaching. So whenever I'm not performing, I'm always teaching a class or now creating my own programs where I can teach, and so that fulfills me. But I always, again, like what you were just saying really helpful thing to do is actually just live your life and be with family and do random things. When we were in Sydney, a bunch of us went bowling, yeah, and I have never had more fun. I think it was the best day out of the whole entire sunset run Silly fun.
Speaker 1:Because it was stupid and silly and fun, and I think sometimes we forget to actually have fun as artists. Yeah, because we are so disciplined to go and do the things and rock up and stuff, but we actually begin to lose sight of that we're human and that we love to just be stupid and have fun and actually enjoy this life that you're creating for yourself. It doesn't actually have to be that hard.
Speaker 2:No, absolutely, and I also have been a big believer in. When you do those things and you feel your cup outside of work. That's when you walk into the room and you bring the best energy. And that energy that filters out everyone, and if you're going to walk in because you're constantly exhausted, because you come to work, but that day you've done two dance classes and had a singing lesson and, like you, just it's everything and you think that's what you have to do. You also need to rest and I'm not great at that, I'm the same.
Speaker 2:I struggle to sit down and watch a TV show. I always feel like I have to be doing something. So it's something that I need to work on still, but definitely, yeah, that energy does filter through. So the more you look after yourself, I think, the better the vibe and energy and positivity and sense of that in the company is going to benefit. So absolutely, and I know your best for you, but be your best for everyone else around you too.
Speaker 1:That's it, and we were chatting yesterday a little bit about this and I've personally been on a bit of discovery and why I want to teach the things I want to teach and how I got to this stage where, yes, I'm a yogi and I love all of that and like meditation and soundbars, like I'm there with the sage and loving my life, you know, outside of a show, and then I get into the show and it's game on, let's go, we're going to dance. But something that really crucially happened for me was about five years into my career we'll chat about this. That I was in musicals. I was out, I was partying a lot.
Speaker 1:That I was in musicals, I was out, I was partying a lot, I was about 10% to 20% looking after myself properly, like the food I was eating, the people I was around, all of that and then the rest was just like go, it was always the next thing and I ended up getting you don't see it on social media, but I hurt my back. I was out for three weeks bedridden. There were so many different things upon my journey maybe I'll start sharing. That actually took me out and didn't allow me to actually perform at the capacity that it looked shiny from the outside.
Speaker 2:Oh, taylor's working again. He's there. I know you make such a good point there, literally, and it wasn't until I know.
Speaker 1:I think we've got to just start sharing the real stuff on Instagram.
Speaker 2:It's so scary though it's funny. We're on stage every night being vulnerable, but no one wants to share that stuff on social. Some people do and I take my hat off to them yeah. It's all glossy, isn't it? So it's good.
Speaker 1:And then it wasn't until a dear friend, best friend of mine, introduced me to yoga and I was like, oh, here we go, like come into a yoga, just do a nice stretch and I'll be fine. And what's the next thing? I need a HIIT workout. What's the next thing? I need a hit workout. I want to do a dance two hour dance, anyway. That's where I was at. And then I did this class and I was like wait, what is this? It allowed me to get out of my mind and into my body. I was like that was an hour. It felt like 25 minutes to me. Anyway, what I'm saying is that when I started to explore yoga but it may be different things for everyone yeah, going to afl, whatever it is for you to actually like, step outside of the performing world.
Speaker 2:That's not the most calming experience, maybe not. Afl. Go for run. I like running, running. There you go.
Speaker 1:But what I'm basically saying is that I ended up realizing that I needed to stop and I needed to really make my self-care and my mindset a priority. And the amazing thing that happened is, as soon as I started to do that I kept booking shows, but not only book shows I was able to sustain them and have less shows off. Nothing wrong with going off Absolutely not. Just put that out there. But we build and we train so hard to get there. Isn't it going to be so much better to actually live there completely and be super open and ready to take on the eight shows and sustain it for longevity and so through?
Speaker 1:that's obviously why we're here today and we're sharing these things and how important it is, because I think we can do it. We can do this industry and I see a lot of artists do this industry burnt out and the hustle culture and putting all of your eggs in one basket and just going, but it's just not sustainable.
Speaker 2:And that's what you want to be you want to be able to have a sustainable career. No one wants to go, wants to hear that dreaded word You've got a career ending injury or you've got it. And you just go. I wish I looked after myself more. Like I wish I did, and you do hear people say things like that in a lot of industries, not just this one, but ones that require you emotionally and physically. Do you think that?
Speaker 1:because I'm almost really wanting to just change the stigma around self-care because I feel I have this like thought coming in that I feel like a lot of artists think that there has to be something wrong like to go into self-care. I need to do it because my mindset or stuff like that it can actually see it as something that's quite neutral and supportive, like whenever I'm teaching or even in myself, it's actually getting a reality check of what do I want and make it something that's actually more empowering. Spend time journaling to actually write out what you want. I remember this amazing quote from this guy that said the number one reason why people don't achieve what they want is because they don't write it down what they want or they don't actually specifically know. They're just like, oh yeah, a bit of this and that would be cool if that or maybe this. If you're not actually specifically clear on what you want, you're not actually going to move forward, but do you agree?
Speaker 1:Like just trying to move there.
Speaker 2:It's a classic one too, like the stigma around going to see a psychologist. Exactly what you just said Everyone thinks that you have to have something wrong to go and see someone and start to talk about, maybe, how you're feeling Sometimes you don't have to have something wrong. No, it's just a healthy thing to do. I absolutely agree this self-care thing and self-care looks so different for everyone.
Speaker 2:Self-care- for you looks so different than self-care for me. So also don't try not to be clouded by what someone else's self-care looks like, because for you it's going to a yoga class, for me it can sometimes be as simple as going and having dinner at my sister's house and then I walk home. I go home feeling so much better, but it's the first thing that we sacrifice Always the first thing that we sacrifice. I've even been like that in terms of self-care with, like, my body physically, like I've been.
Speaker 2:I'm a pretty active person in terms of like I used to go to the gym like six times a week and once we started the show I couldn't do that. Like that was not, that didn't work for me and at first I was like I still need to be doing that. But then, when I was able to step back and go, that's actually not looking after myself, that's not self-care, that is actually self-sabotage and that's how I'm going to end up really burnt out and really, yeah, probably injured, to be honest. So, yeah, sometimes self-care is actually going that's not working for me right now and adjusting it. I know like you're really big on journaling as well.
Speaker 2:I need to yeah, I need to get better at it, but I did find my journal. I got back to Melbourne and I found a journal that my friend gifted me when I booked Sunset and I'd written in it for the first week of rehearsals and I kicked myself that I didn't continue that but it was really interesting to read back on how I was feeling and like the nerves. I know it was crazy but so cool to have that as well. Yeah, that was almost self-care sitting down and reading that and going wow.
Speaker 1:Reflection.
Speaker 2:Look how much I've grown in the last seven months. It was cool.
Speaker 1:I feel like we could just talk for hours and hours and hours, yeah, and I honestly just love meeting you and that's a really cool privilege as well that to be in musical theatre. You do get to meet just a random bunch of people for that short period of time or long period of time and then all of a sudden you don't see them again. So it's just been really awesome connecting. But is there any last bit of advice that you would give the listeners listening in who are, yeah, students looking to get into the industry, or even emerging artists that they're in their first shows? Yeah and yeah. What would be Charlotte Page's final advice?
Speaker 2:My advice would be you can make a career out of this, and I wish I knew that earlier. I did the thing. I went off. I got a degree that would allow me to have a stable nine-to-five job. So if you are like me and you are not fresh out of school maybe you're 23, 24 like I was you're working a nine-to-five and you have this other thing that you love and you're always sitting there wondering, like my biggest things, this is going Mel Robbins, Mel Robbins things.
Speaker 2:This is going, mel Robbins, but take a risk, have a crack If I didn't imagine like I always think back. I'm like imagine if I didn't go, imagine if I didn't accept my offer because I thought that I had to buy a house in that next 12 months.
Speaker 2:Or imagine if I didn't accept that offer because all my friends back home were settling down, having babies and getting married and I went I should do that instead of actually following my heart and taking the risk. So just have a crack. There is nothing, you have nothing to lose in seeing how it goes, and if it doesn't work out for you or you decide it's not for you, then you gave it a crack. That was my biggest thing the fear of regret, the fear of not making that choice, and I think for me at the time it felt very now or never. And, yeah, I'm just so glad that there was something inside me that was like I think you should audition for this school and I think you should see where this takes you. So, yeah, if you're umming and ahhing, I think my advice would be more for people who were like me and have always performed, but you're just not quite sure. It's not, you're not too old.
Speaker 2:Firstly, can I just say that I thought I was too old when I was 23. I was like everyone's going to be younger, and it's not. There's lots of ages. Yeah, take the risk, have a crack. You can always go back to a nine to five job. There is always something else that you can do. But yeah, we're only in our 20s once and I think it's the best time to start. That's my advice.
Speaker 1:I love it. Thank you so much for being on. How can people find you on the social media?
Speaker 2:I'll put your oh gosh, I'm trying to think.
Speaker 1:I think I'm underscore, underscore page on Instagram or add it into the show notes if you want to watch Shasha's journey. And yeah, you'll probably be seeing lots of Charlotte on my socials we're always together. Singapore, that's it. It's going to Singapore February, which is really cool. So I can't wait to go and explore there, because I've never been there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, never been. I've been once for three days, but I'm really excited to live there for a few weeks. It'll be great, great. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:You're so welcome.